Final: Diamondbacks 4, Pirates 1

Pirates Lineup:

1. Gregory Polanco (L) RF
2. Starling Marte (R) LF
3. Andrew McCutchen (R) CF
4. Aramis Ramirez (R) 3B
5. Jung Ho Kang (R) SS
6. Neil Walker (S) 2B
7. Pedro Alvarez (L) 1B
8. Francisco Cervelli (R) C
9. Gerrit Cole (R) P

This is the best line-up we have!

Don't think so. Below lineup would be better.

1. GP
2. NW
3. AM
4. JHK
5. SM
6. PA
7. FC
8. AR
9. GC

Very good looking Pirates lineup

Re "best lineup we have"...and when JHay returns (not to mention Mercer)????

Apparently they flipped Inciarte and Paralta in LF and RF, must be b/c of PNC Parks spacious LF. Inciarte has CF skills if I remember correctly.

Not so far!

They can score runs. Pollock and Goldschmidt are their "stars", bu Inciarte and Peralta can both hit. Castillo you know from his Cubs days.... the 6-8 guys are pretty unremarkable offensively.

7th and 8th in the lineup are rather average. The others can hit plus Tomas on the bench has sneaky power

Lamb hasn't filled in too bad

WAR for past 30 days
Pollack 1.6
Perralta 1.4
Castillo o.8
Goldschmidt 0.8
Inciarte 0.8
Lamp 0.7

For comparison...
Polanco 1.4
Cute 1.3
Kang 1.3
Cervelli 1.0
Marte 0.7
Pedro 0.6
Walker 0.5

Lonley, do you work for Brownie with that meaningless stats. Really.

WAR is far from a meaningless stat. It may not be the end-all be-all stat that some claim but to dismiss it as meaningless really does reveal ignorance.

Won number 14 July 26, since then 2 losses and a no deciion

Time to go back to 154 game season - baseball in November is idiotic.
Do away with divisions - play each NL team 9 times 3 3 game series 2 at home one year 2 away the next
Play 7 AL teams 4 games 2-2
2 of the 7 would be the same each year - Cleveland and Detroit for the Pirates for example - the others would rotate through

I've read the players do not like 2 game series

I love baseball so it doesn't bother me

MONEY ... Dictates 162 games!

MONEY ... Dictates 162 games!

Yes, it starts Friday in San Diego, then four in Arizona and three in San Diego. Plus, Randall Grichuk just went on the 15 day DL w/ a right elbow strain. Maybe the Cardinals start getting a little thin talent-wise? It hasn't happened in awhile, maybe they are due.

The last segment of the trip is San Francisco. Sorry.

Starting next Monday, the Cardinals play 10 games in the West. 3 at San Diego, 4 at Arizona and 3 at San Francisco

I still feel they are do to drop 5 of 6 or 7. They just don't look like an alltime great team to me.

Hope you are right, Woody. They have 5 great starting pitchers so it's difficult for them to put together a losing streak of any magnitude.

And the Cubs might come back to earth too. Look at all the home Cubs they are getting this month, and who they are against. I think the road trip to San Fran and LA could cause some problems for them. They are a different team at home and so are the Giants and Dodgers.

From August 25 through September 9, Chicago plays 15 games. Nine will be at San Francisco, Los Angeles, and St. Louis. If the Cubs bubble is to burst, here's probably where and when.

Fir hike to DL - last month Cards offense has been Carpenter, Girchik, Heyward and Piscotty - will be interesting to see how they do over the next 2-3 weeks.

Hate auto correct "Girchik"

Yes, just activated off the DL

Payback

I keep saying: right now, he is NOT a top-notch pitcher in the NL. Since the break, he's been getting clubbed. Tonight is no different.

yep, just like that genius g8rh8r was saying, he's not hitting spots. Watch where Cervelli sets up and watch where the pitch goes...couple of those were right down middle of the plate. Oh well plenty of time left

Brink at the PG and Hardball talk NBC had brief stories. I've seen nothing here about it lately. From what I hear he had a PRP injection near the elbow and is close to throwing off of themound. Hopeful to return this season, nothing more specific.

++

Watch either one of the slump for 10 games and you'll hear the same thing.

True and true

Jonathan - 10 games? Really??? I'd bet on closer to 10 AB. Or 10 pitches for Pedro.

Ha! No doubt Alan.

For the NL - Pedro ranked 49th over the last 30 days.
With 15 NL teams with 8 position starters eachhe is clearly above the median for NL productivity. And yes that WAR incorporates his awful defense.

Not today!

They never shut up.

Nevermind how many people throw that hard, Cole has been throwing that hard since the Pirates got him. Everybody and their grandmothers know he throws a high 90's fastball.

Agree, and this idiot does not realize the TV screen shows each count and MPH. Goodness,. Can't stand the blathering that goes on with this guy, from Cell phone sizes, fake chuckle on nothing funny, to not calling the game half the time, till something happens so he can Apoplectically scream to the top of his lungs with corn ball phrases, thinking he is the gunner or lange

All that and the ridiculous fake stories his partner comes up with. What I like about guys like Lange are they pay attention to the game. They call it as a "play-by-play" announcer. Unless they've been instructed otherwise, they're not here to entertain us, that's why we're watching sports.

Who, glad to see you know what a quality broadcast is, yet people treat this guy as a legend in the making. He was good early on, but now so into himself. I feel as if I am watching a kids show half the time.

It's gotten to be somewhat like the espn broadcasts at time where they feel like they have to be talking at all times whether it's relevant to the game or not. I'd rather have silence and insightful, helpful comments that come twice every 30 second or so than constant chatter thats irrelevant. Talk about the game, relevant stats, the previous meeting, anything to do with this game right now or just be quiet and let us watch the game.

To be fair to them tonight they have a lot of time to fill between hellickson pitches. He has to take a good minute between pitches between how long it takes him to get a pitch and deliver it. Its even worse if someone is in base.

+++++

Let me clarify, because my comments keep getting misinterpreted. I lobe the Pirates' staff, overall. They've been good all year. The problem is that stupid one-game wild card (a stupid concept!) that will penalize a team like the Bucs. I'd like the Pirates' chances in a best of three WC format; but the one-game is a killer.

Recency bias. He was a top 3 pitcher in the game until his last 3 starts.

Cole seems to have a very hard time letting things go on the mound. Seems like one hit or bad pitch stays with him for a few more batters. Needs to block that stuff out & move on.

The speed could've been better but that's a hard over the shoulder catch. That's a better one for Marte being able to run straight at it.

37

The team always plays lousy defense, but seemingly worse behind Cole.

Actually they're all on Cole. He left some pitches hanging that were hit extremely hard.

Marte did not throw the pitches that got roped as three deep drives you are way off base. Cole is not the Cole of May and June. Quit trying to scapegoat someone. Cole threw those lousy pitches and is lucky to only down 2-0

Marte catches that foul ball the INNING IS OVER ... NO RUNS SCORED ... He is in the dugout resting and not throwing any pitches!!

Those 2 k's in the first with a chance to get a run back were pretty weak

yeah, I was thinking the same thing. He looks like a middle weight after a really tough fight..his face looked swollen...weird

Fast ball is not moving

And several right down the middle belt high

yep

at spelling bee

SPELLING BEE!!!

That's a poor excuse for his lousy pitching thus far.

It would seem like it. Not likely the whole reason, but I'm sure Cole prefers Stewart. If guess he's more comfortable with the way Stewart controls the game and makes pitch calls.

Obviously there are differences between Cervelli and Stewart in pitch calling and glove spotting. I just kind of feel that Cole seems more confident with Stewart.

He's just not hitting his pitches and coming back with hittable pitches trying to get strikes. He is human ya know

Huh?

++

Or not. The way to beat the bucks is to throw garbage.

Throws a lot of changeups

I think he has been struggling with flat fastballs since the all star break

Time to time? Cole has been shelled his last 3-4 starts. This at crunch time in the season.

Shelled?! Did you actually watch the last outing against the cards when his defense looked like a little league team? Kicking the ball around the yard? Cole will be fine - this is the definition of recency bias.

Brandon: he still got hit...and (though not an example of shelled) walked the pitcher to start an inning and that opened the floodgates. Some of you need to stop making excuses for him. He has not been good for a while.

As with Glasnow, his changeup is not there yet.

Cole needs to stop with this droopy shoulders, pouty face every time something doesn't go his way anymore. Seems like his anger is getting the better of him anymore.

I think you meant Kershaw. But point taken.

You are correct, thanks.

I want to say it was Brink that had in his notes today the proximity of the Pirates and visitors dugouts and how umpires probably hear more jawing here than anywhere else.

Makes you wonder how that impacts the strike zone.

That has zero impact on umpire calls. It may have impact on quick hooks on ejections.

The home plate ump today certainly won't hear dugout talk if he didn't hear cutch get grazed on the elbow from 6 inches away.

I don't agree. I think pro players get a little more leash than amateurs. And I think the way strike zones move during a game is indicative of a lot a things.

Schilling said last night on Sun Night baseball, you can discuss balls and strikes, even complain. You just can't argue.

Excuse me, Biertempfel. Matheny seems to think it's an issue.
http://triblive.com/mobile/8910928-96/park-pnc-matheny

Bpn. I read the full article and mathenys point was how he can hear what is said in the other dugout. Don't ink he said anything about that influencing ump calls.

Are the acoustics at PNC Park getting the Pirates in trouble with the umpires and opposing teams?

“Without a doubt, I think so,” Matheny said. “I think more importantly it is with the umpires. .

Guess it comes down to how you define trouble Bpn. I personally don't believe the umps are calling poorly based on hearing the dugout gripe. Quick ejections maybe.

I don't think it's the only factor. But it could be part of it. Similar to the theory the Pens whining hurt them with officiating.

But I will say, umpiring in general has noticeably been bad. Watched a couple non Pirate games this weekend and balls and strikes were very inconsistent. I honestly think it's just a younger generation of umpires with improved technology/HDTV. :)

You might be obsessed with Pedro Alvarez....to be clear

Yep

I'm not sure. They seem to score in bunches in any inning whether it be now or later.

Ugh. A flat offensive performance vs a very hittable pitcher. Yuck.

Agree with cmat.

Cy Hellickson on the mound.

Can't get DKOnPittsburghSports.com on a baseball glove.

Yet.

Lol I saw a group of people almost get drilled right above the visitor dugout on my tv. Most annoying thing

game's not over

Phillies didn't get him in his last start. His nickname is Hellboy by the way

Well maybe the guys in front of him should be on base more often

Obviously.

Kinda shows too how pitchers won't give him anything with men on

Only Pedro will get blamed for hitting home runs

Bingo Durka!

Solid point

What else does Hurdle need to see before he gets a shot at cleanup....geese

If a butterfly flaps its wings in Madagascar, Pedro gets the yips. That's why he's not batting cleanup.

His 17th solo shot, by the way.

I think AZ can hit. No argument that Cole has struggled, but they said in the pregame cmats boys scored more runs than Bucs this year.

It's a bit of both.

How so? I agree with how they view challenges. If its not absolutely clear do not overturn and if it takes more than two minutes leave the play as called on the field.

Bob Walk makes good points about pitching

Bob Walk is the best color guy in the business, IMO. Bar none.

Cmon guys- they were babbling. Did he touch him, didn't he touch him and on and on. Replay is here- get over it and let them make the call!!

What else can you do during a 5 minute replay besides complain? Shouldn't ruin the rest of the game

they can't sit in silence. radio and tv have dead air timers that last only a few secs. i

Look at this Buffoon Florida Steeler excuse for a commenter. We get it, you don't like the Pirates announcers. Quit crying about it.

Powells, perhaps you should learn how to write a complete sentence.

Because you would rather have Stewart's bat in the line up than Pedro's ???

If they were to face Lester or MadBum, yes.

Maybe.

Guess the comparison would be Morris bat or stew's

It doesn't matter. That game there you use every bullet in the gun anyway. Stewart could start with Cole and Cervelli could catch the bullpen by the 6th or 7th. Can almost guarantee you with a lead late Kangs at 3rd and SRods at 1st.

Don't be surprised if Morse isn't around by then!

If I remember right, they carried less pitchers and more bench in WC last two years.

Awwww so sad.

Haha

They will probably bring up another stellar player from Triple A who will hit .300 like they usually do.

Yet still winning tonight...

Haha

Guess not.

Ramirez batting .375 the past 10 games coming into tonight.

Look at Pedro's past history in the cleanup spot then tell me who you want there. If he is not batting 6 or 7 in the order he does not hit worth a lick.

I don't care about 10 games- he has hit 12 homers all year. And, past stats on Pedro is only good for history books. You go with the hot hand. I think you are permitted to change the lineup everyday or does Hurdle's book say otherwise??

the long ball with pedro usually comes when they are behind or the score is 0-0. ramirez has been a clutch hitter driving in 10 runs over the last week.

so to summarize - the stats for just this year justify not putting Ramirez in the 4 hole, but the stats over multiple years do NOT justify Alvarez NOT going to the 4 hole. Hmm...

yeah they need a true 4 hole hitter

Alvarez strikes out a lot at the 4 spot. That's why they stopped batting him there in the first place. Ramirez has a career's worth of rbi's to justify having him there. And the last 10 games as mentioned above are more testament to having him there as well. He's a smarter hitter than Pedro, not as explosive, but he hits situationally.

+++

If you build it, Lunchbox will come.

I'd like to have him back but that's not quite where I was going.

:) Going to be an interesting roster in a few weeks. Probably Snider, Liz, Blake Wood. Maybe even Keon Broxton pinch running.

Cory Hart and Scahill too.

Josh Bells been on a tear too. I don't think we will see him, but he's gonna rekindle some talk.

Sanchez and Volstad when Indy finishes playoff run

What's wrong with going over 100?

he is going to throw more innings than last year. after the fact but if blanton starts that inning than there is no need for a double switch removing kang

Cause of the long weekend and 20 games in 20 days.

I heard it was like 34 straight successful steals headed into tonight. Granted there are a lot of reasons for that, but yet another reason I don't want to see Maddon and the Cubs in the WC.

sorry even worse Kang out

Horrible move. It's the seventh inning

Unreal. I'm still really confused right now on what his strategy is. Really deep pen. no need for blanton to go multiple innings.

Very confused. Am I missing something? Makes zero sense. Now we pinch hit for him. Hmmmm

Hurdle just showed he had zero faith in his 6 7 8 guys getting something going

Yes. Absolutely no rationale for doing that, especially when you PH for Florimon anyway. Not that it's going to matter since no one can get a hit with RISP.

A bucco.

Oops! Forgot Milo...

Pure idiocy.

How dare they have a bad game

What would you have mr hurdle do.?? Hit for them or pitch tonight ?

Can't go anywhere with Hurdle ... except to the postseason for a third straight year. I'll take it.

After his many struggles, you are not alone in that thinking.

Let's hope I'm heavily influenced by this upcoming at bat.

The problem with Pedro hot streaks is that an Ice Age usually follows.

True. Maybe that's why he pulls his hat over his ears.

DJ. The way he wears his hat has been a problem for years. As soon as he corrects that, his problems will be solved!

+++++

Knew someone would blame pedros 2_4 hr night for the loss

27th in the league, scoring with the bases loaded.

Bpn,
Thanks for that-- knew it was bad; didn't realize that bad.

You are right, of course Paul. But it is astounding how often they seem to get zip with the bases loaded. Selective perception is possible here.

Looks like effort to me.

A lack of effort means that they would not be trying. They've been battling very hard. Those things happen in baseball.

I guess I can quit worrying about selective perception! 27th?

Here's another one for you Paul.

https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/runners-left-in-scoring-position-per-game

Let's get them participation trophies Paul James Harrison has a couple nice ones he wants to get rid of

Paul, ranking 27th in that category is lack of effort.

Not for nothing but that's a misleading stat. You don't get a lot of guys on base (the Twins) and it looks like you're doing good. We know the Cards hit well with RISP, yet they are ranked 20th on that list. Doesn't necessarily mean you aren't scoring runs, just that you're getting more guys on base.

That's the spirit. Participation trophies for one and all, except Hurdle because he sucks every night (right?)

I don't agree it means lack of effort, but it surely represents lack of situational productivity.

I agree with that, Patrick. But I still maintain, based on the way the team has played recently (very well), that this is still more of a fluke than a continuation of a serious trend.

These nights happen to everyone*.

*except the cardinals.

Who has our % for guys on 3B with less than 2 outs who don't score? And where do we rank in NL?

These would be good indicators of whether we are adept at situational hitting.

There's a difference between lack of effort and lack of execution

Florimon: Don't have another SS.
Rodriguez: Have you seen his defense?
Morse: 4-13 as a Pirate including a single today and a few hard hits that were great defensive plays.
Ishikawa: Off and on, he's fine as a bench hitter for a little. I'd be a bit surprised if he stays when Jhay and Mercer come back.

How many games has his defense won? .220 along with the others mentioned kill the offense.

Morse hasn't killed anything. Ishi has either been timely or untimely. He's just hot and cold. Florimon shouldn't really be here and everyone knows he can't hit. He's a d specialist so its unfair to expect him to hit too well. Would you rather have Pedro in with a 1 run lead. He's really showed his usefulness since Jhay and Mercer got hurt because he can play anywhere they need him to fill in. He's hitting .321 in August and .293 in the last 4 weeks.

Florimon's bat isn't on the roster. Just his legs.

Ditto.

They killed Happ in Seattle this year.

And they scored on an error.

I heard a few teams inquired about him, but Toronto didn't want to move him to a contender for little or nothing.

I think he's just the quintessential AAAA player, but he's going to the right park to hit in. Ball flys out of the Rogers Centre.

I reckon he'll be the next Joey Bats...

Thx, BPN.

Lot of solid observations here I agree with, especially movie remakes of Serpico. I think we're up to Serpico 29: The Final Bust.

Great glove just no bat. Felt like this was a game where they really missed Harrison and Mercer, especially with the late switch for Kang.