From someone who gets stuck watching way too much HGTV as background noise, here are three wholly unsolicited home improvement suggestions for our big-league sports facilities.
The upper deck in Heinz Field not made for comfort. No space between rows to comfortably get across to your seat....lot of stepping on toes.
Never sat in lower bowl so can't comment on that.
Generally uninspired structure.....
I agree with that you said about upper deck. In the right weather conditions ( cold, windy, rainy) like the Monday Night Game vs Chiefs a few years ago...it can be nearly an intolerable atmosphere. lower bowl is nice though.
bmathews
2-11-2015, 11:53 am
Lower bowls are the same. I luckily have seats at the top of a corner endzone section which provides 3x the room in front of you.
Brian Campbell
2-11-2015, 11:51 am
Great points about the stadiums...PNC I wouldn't ever mess with. If you added seats to CF area...you run risk of blocking the beautiful skyline view...the relatively small seating capacity on adds to the allure & experience of a game at PNC. As someone who was fortunate enough to go to the BlackOut game...nothing short of a WS game at PNC could ever top that stadium experience.
I agree with 99% of what you said. I do think there is room to add seating in the outfield without coming at the expense of the skyline. The current height of outfield seating is so low that there is definitely room to add without ruining the skyline. It'd be a marginal amount of seats added, but it's possible. I always felt the outfield seating in PNC (from left to right) was so minimal compared to any other park in MLB.
bmathews
2-11-2015, 11:52 am
Pretty good analysis.
Some other thoughts:
The one 'feature' of heinz field has been the open end. So what does the team decide to do with this? Close it off with more seats.
Heinz field used to (and to a degree still does) suffer from HORRIBLE ingress and egress for fans. To the point that I would wait until just after kickoff every game to come in from the lots. This has improved as they have added close to half a dozen 'express' gates but it's still somewhat of a nightmare.
Consol is similar but given the smaller size seems to handle it ok.
I also hate those tents. At the very least, build something. They won't because they come down in the summer at times.
Way back in 2010 I got an email (as a season ticket holder) offering 'Steelers Legends Club' seats.
A Steelers Legends Club membership includes the following amenities:
* One parking pass per account
* Steelers Legends Club Tent Pass for pre-game hospitality outside of Heinz Field near Gate A in our Hospitality Village
* Game Ticket in the south end zone field level seating area in section LC001, LC002 or LC003
Other features and benefits include:
* Pre-Game food, beverage (includes beer and wine), entertainment, and gift inside the Steelers Legends Club Tent located outside of Gate A at Heinz Field
* Steelers Alumni appearances each week inside the tent
* Private entrance into Heinz Field through the Marketing Check-In area
* Ticket in the South End Zone field level seating area
* Box lunch and bottled water delivered to your seat
* Exclusive waitress service available during each game
bmathews
2-11-2015, 1:03 pm
Now that I think of it and look at images, I don't think the tents come down. I was thinking ribfest but they just work ribfest around the tents. If you look at a google maps image, they are even marked on the map. Looks like they are pretty permanent and ugly.
Jay Baileys
2-11-2015, 12:11 pm
The Steelers stadium was a joke from the 2nd event ever held there. A Stillers preseason game. My Father-in-law took my late brother-in-law. He had seats in Pitt stadium, 3 Rivers, etc. and one of the seats was broken. He mentioned it to the usher. They told it would be fixed by the end of halftime. I sat there for a game 1/2 way through that season, and guess what still wasn't fixed? It finally was taken care of over 2 football seasons later! The Rooneys spend to the cap I will give them that, but that stadium is an embarrassment. The cocktail umbrella rotundas are just a shame.
Cor-Ten steel was actually developed by U S Steel and showcased on the USS Building. It is anti-corrosion and changes to a more rustic color over the years. Would have been a nice choice for Heinz Field.
All the concourses at the venues seem to be being crowded out by these mini stands set up all over the place. No wonder there is no room to roam.
PNC is truly the crown jewel. Nice job DK!
For as uninspired as the exterior of the Consol is, they might as well have put a 2 can beer helmet on the statue out front. They don't even attempt to cover up the vast flat space with any kind of team marketing. Imagine the size of video wall they could put on the side of the arena for playoff tailgating! (Think: size of the jumbotron in Cowboy Stadium). Imagine doing ANYTHING besides what they have now!
As for the interior, let's try to get more than 1 kiosk per concourse where you can buy coffee or hot chocolate. And how about more choices than plain coffee or hot chocolate? Dunkin Donuts: official supplier of limited choices and limited availability for the Pittsburgh Penguins! Consol SUCKS for a designated driver that doesn't drink pop.
As far as I'm concerned the ONLY home improvement they should be worried about for Consol is the ice. Seeing the surfaces that the western Canadian teams skate on made me realize once again just how incompetent the Consol crew is.
Just remember the dollar amounts that the architect was working with. Heinz Field and PNC came in well under $600M I believe. (full disclosure, Earl Santee, the architect is my brother-in-laws brother and a very good dude... DK, you should seek him out for an interview... his dream as a youngster was to build Yankee Stadium and he did... along with Target Field and many others... the stories behind the building of Target Field are really interesting)
The biggest thing that disappointed me about Heinz Field was the noise. Or lack of it. 3 Rivers was an intimidating place for teams to come play because they simply couldn't hear themselves think. It was a phenomenal atmosphere for a football game. Heinz Field does not even compare in that regard.
I was also surprised at the lack of a mention of the Pirates Charities sign, but then I remembered it was blown up a few weeks back, so that explains it...
I also agree about the horrible ingress at Heinz Field. Even at Pitt games, where attendance is lousy, there is always a huge backlog waiting to get into the open end of the stadium. Not well thought out at all.
I haven't yet had the opportunity to go to Consol Energy, but I would imagine my thoughts of the concourses there would be colored by my memories of climbing into the crow's nest that was the F section of the Civic Arena...
I think we are less than ten years from the Rooneys asking for a major renovation to Heinz.
I realize they don't hold many concerts there a year, but I think each concert is worth 2 games of foot traffic and wear and tear. It's going to add up. Plus the Pitt games. I believe they are moving the HS games out.
First visit to Consol I sat in the lower bowl. Couldn't get over the concourses. So spacious! Upper bowl? Worse than Philly's, and that's not easy to "beat." I've actually take the escalator downstairs to use those restrooms between periods. Just an awful set-up in the upper bowl.
I think Heinz Field is great, except for the yellow seats,
As for Consol, the Civic Arena was hindered by mid to late 20th century technology, yet still was able to get upper end zone seats nice and close to the ice. Consol didn't even try! And if you had an upper seat at the old Aud in Buffalo, you were right on top of the ice, How about a little creative engineering? I know -- too expensive.
I'd be curious to hear from Pgh fans who traveled to other teams arenas, parks and stadiums and hear what they like and dislike about those, and compare them to our venues.
I've been to FedEx Field in DC many times, and I think Heinz is far superior. When you're sitting inside FedEx, you don't know whether you're in DC, LA, or Istanbul. It's an enclosed bowl, so you can't see any outside landmarks. And it wouldn't matter anyway since it's located in a giant cow pasture in Maryland. When you sit in Heinz and you know you're in Pittsburgh. The incline; Mount Washington, buildings near the point. It's nice.
Got to Philly sometime an thrill to sight of the hockey arena and the baseball field squatting in a giant parking lot in the most disgusting part of town.
KC's baseball and football fields are nice, but they too are far from the city and are surrounded by vast parking lots.
Overall, I think Pittsburgh's three venues collectively are in the top 20% compared to other major sports cities'.
The upper bowl of Consol is crap. Unless your a Sherpa. Walking from the aisle to your seat is like walking a tightrope. At the first Pens game there, two rows in front of me, one of our local "fans", four sheets to the wind, rose to go, I assume, use the facilities and fell over the people in the front row. He came very close to either going over the rail and plunging headfirst into unsuspecting fans in the lower bowl, or at least smacking his head of the steel rail. Fortunately no one was hurt but you cannot safely tread a tightrope while drunk. He did, however, return to his seat with two more beers!
Consol is bland and soulless, period. I understood the need for an updated building to provide more revenue streams, and better facilities for the players; but, as a fan, the experience and atmosphere is a significant downgrade from the Civic Arena.
The Civic Arena provided such an intimate atmosphere. My season seats were up in E balcony first, then I moved to D. At Consol, I'm in the upper part of the upper bowl (which is fine for what it is). I have had additional seats for a number of games in other areas for both arenas. Legroom is very poor in the upper bowl of CEC. I don't have a problem, being 5'4"; but I've had friends who are over 6' tall attend w me, and they've been in real discomfort trying to find a place for their legs.
Sight lines are fine, in general, lower or upper.
But, by far the worst aspect is the sterility and lack of emotion present. Obviously, this is due to the fans themselves too; but something about the place contributes to that atmosphere.
It's often as if a stupor has set in. And, of course, if the Pens do get a decent lead, the moronic high-pitched 'woo'ing starts...THE most annoying fan behaviour anywhere.
I've been to a fair number of other arenas for hockey games (w both winning and losing franchises) and, unfortunately, the atmosphere at CEC has to be one of the worst.
Big fan of GOOD architecture but always a very delicate thing. Too many hands in the pie spoil the broth. And when you try to modify after original build -- ugh, good luck.
Consol: Constricted by footprint on less desirable parcel below more majestic vistas of Igloo. Always a bad thing when you need to build replacement before original structure is demolished.
Heinz: Design / site positioning/placement -- well, just wrong. Again, construction begun before original structure demolished. Bad, bad thing.
PNC: A gem. Has quirks that equate to charms. Will only get better with age, like Fenway. Think intimacy, not crowded. Love bandboxes. Don't touch it . . . except this:
Always thought Three Rivers would have been great for football-only, which it could have been converted to with the Bucs going to PNC. The 300 and 400 levels (they never did get those right) could have gone all-suites/skyboxes. The entire area below level 200 could have been redesigned with tons of new seats retrofitted between the stadium wall and the field, filling that wasted space. Natural grass could have been installed.
Can’t stand the gray warning track at Heinz. Want to see green all the way to the stands. Argument could be made, in fact, that the stands are too far away from the field. They should begin where that useless warning track does. So the whole stadium is too wide. Always wondered what the distance is at the 50-yard line between the upper deck facades on each side and how it compares to what that distance was at Three Rivers.
Hate that white flooring in the bench area on the sidelines. Almost wish they’d go synthetic for the entire out-of-bounds area, with grass in the field of play. These groundskeepers don’t want anybody standing on their precious grass.
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Under that same category are those awful umpire boxes, or whatever those are, at the back corners of the infield skin at PNC. Hate them. And they keep growing. First they were in foul ground only. Now they match the base paths in width and keep getting deeper into the outfield. Get rid of them and have a natural corner.
Not crazy about the “modern” Coonley cutouts at first and third. Better than the original square ones that KY complained about, but still unappealing. Just go with arcs that all match. Timeless.
And the home plate dirt circle is too big, as is the case in most parks these days. It is supposed to be a 13’ radius from the apex of home plate. And that is all it needs to be. But these groundskeepers want the batting cage and players standing around it to be on dirt, not grass. Keep Off The Grass. Surprised they never come out and steal the ball during the game like the neighbors who used to take our Whiffle balls when they went in their yard.
Since we're circle-mad, erase the chalk line around the foul territory edge of the thing. Chalk is for baselines and batters boxes.
And those walkup lanes connecting the on-deck circles with the home plate circle. Could they be any more huge? With chalk lines yet? Another Keep Off The Grass resodding precaution, and an ugly one.
Not nuts about the basepaths widening in foul ground as they approach first and third base. Straight all the way is the best looking way.
Kind of wish the whole warning track in foul territory was a little narrower. Only needs to be half as wide as it is, maybe 75%. More grass please.
It’s a mile from the seats, but the most classic infield is in Oakland. Philly is also pretty straightforward.
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During Ask Pirates Management at PirateFest when PNC was still a construction site, asked McClatchy if there was going to be one of those hideous, spring training-like Batter’s Eyesores in centerfield. He said, “Pennsylvania Pine.” Then what is that ugly utilitarian behemoth out there that’s blocking the view of the bridge? No getting around this one ever, unfortunately – unless they could one day make it where the thing could be raised and lowered somehow like placekick nets behind a goal post. A necessary eyesore.
Although he let it slide this time, we know DK hates the Pirates Charities sign. Indeed it should be blown up.
Always wished the right field line was 321 instead of 320. Just another subconscious tip of the cap to Roberto.
In the case of Heinz Field and the Consolation Center you have a pair of owners that intentionally minimized their own out of pocket investment. The Penguins never built their grand staircase connecting the upper and lower entrances (which requires fans to walk around the block) and the Steelers had the audacity to sue the city over building extra seating, which now most conveniently will incorporate private boxes. Both arenas are embarrassments to the city.
While PNC is no architectural gem, it did pay homage to Forbes Field and was spectacularly sited on the shoreline. At least one Owner was willing to reach into his pocket to take it the extra yard.
February 11, 2015
Morning Java: Home improvement
by Dejan Kovacevic • Videos • Morning Java, Penguins, Pirates, Steelers
BY DEJAN KOVACEVIC
From someone who gets stuck watching way too much HGTV as background noise, here are three wholly unsolicited home improvement suggestions for our big-league sports facilities.