Final: Reds 4, Pirates 3

Cole is 14-4

Maybe that's just against the Reds

Those are Locke's stats from last night. Wouldn't that be sad if Locke were our Ace? Like Paul Maholm once was?

Reds Lineup:
1. Brandon Phillips (R) 2B
2. Joey Votto (L) 1B
3. Todd Frazier (R) 3B
4. Jay Bruce (L) RF
5. Marlon Byrd (R) LF
6. Brayan Pena (S) C
7. Eugenio Suarez (R) SS
8. Raisel Iglesias (R) P
9. Billy Hamilton (S) CF

Glad Marte is in there, I was worried about his wrist.

How long does Ramirez get to bat 4th and not produce. Kang to 4, Pedro to 5, Walker to 6, Ramirez to 7 against righties

Rammy's only hit about a dozen long fly balls. Let one land .

Thank goodness they are wrong (haha).

Was wondering what the hype was about with that line haha

Stunning. That's an MVP pace for a full season.

He's awesome. Jumped from 1.1 to 3.5 on the year. Top 50 at least I would think

Actually I think your single sentence explains your point well enough ;)

None of them would have happened if the Pirates hadn't messed with the baseball gods and sent him to AAA after Spring Training. I thought that "baseball gods" stuff was stupid, but the proof's in the pudding. 😇

I'm wearing a yellow cap...

Nice D.

Beautiful!

+fill in the number you'd like

Really surprised Byrd is still there, as many have said. May have something to do with the vesting option, but even still, still a productive player at 8 million.

Trades can still occur in AUG, but players have to clear waivers. The Pirates almost ought to trade for Byrd so they don't have to face him.

Is Chapman a FA after this year? Thought a year to go

Chapman has at least one more year of control.

there are still waiver moves to come

I don't live in PGH, so I've never heard them, but do they ever have a negative thing to say about the team? I can think of a player or two that went elsewhere that I would have liked to see on the Pirates.

Not a fan of Happ, but I haven't heard of anyone who is. Ramirez is just not the player he was, at least in the small sample size.

Morse, Soria and Blanton I'm okay with. Not great, but better what they had on hand.

Iinterested how the Worley thing plays out.

And if those hosts want access to Pirate personnel for interviews or being guests on the program, they better keep up the praise.

I was just surprised they were so glowing, or at least that was my perception. Just have to see how things work out.

Zangrilli and crew toting the company line. I know Starkey questioned bothe acquisitions yesterday in Happ and Morse.

I'll stand and be counted as a student of pitching who finds Happ interesting.

I was thinking the same thing FS.

Not with Harrison and Mercer coming back as major upgrades

Meh, major upgrades is a little bit of an exaggeration.

Their main issue might be starting pitching, and I don't know about Bell or Glasnow. But I would have moved a decent prospect or two for a decent #3 with years of control. Buchholz for example.

Personally, Smiley I'm starting to think Taillon could be a dud with his health.

Smiley-- your source? Because you are wrong-- look at some of the deals.

bpn...totally agree with you about Taillon. He seems to be going down the Dylan Bundy road.

bpn, Bucholz is on the 60 day DL

Could've got 'em cheaper than Biz. 😉

Alex Wood would've been nice too. Those types, young, signed, years of control ect.

Smiley, I never would. I posted that someone told Stan Savran that what Rangers gave up for Hamels was equivalent of Meadows, Bell, and Hansen. I'm not doing that.

Missed the boat on not spending 10 more mill to have Volquez to the other three.

Giants got Leake for a tenth round draft choice and a non drafted player. Hardly, a kings ransom. Neal didn't look hard enough.

FS - Doesn't matter what round they were drafted. SF gave up their top prospect. And my original question is for a big time rental. Leake isn't big time. I'm talking Hamels, Price, legit aces that got moved.

And Taillon isn't a dud. He's still young and talented. Give him next year to actually pitch and evaluate then.

there is NO WAY Josh Bell is up here before middle of next summer. pirates require 400 to 500 atbats at AAA before being promoted to big leagues.

Bell is struggling on defense and has NO power for a big dude - he is not the long term solution at first - unless you are drinking the prospects are our future Kool Aid

Still pretty young, just learned 1st. Huntington wont rush him after some of Polancos struggles. Could see Hanson though.

With a $5 million investment in Bell, they will give him every chance to be that guy.

My guess is that Alvarez and Morse are auditioning to be the starting 1B next year.

And besides, when I see J.A. I'm inclined to pronounce it "stinks".

Oh, and welcome to Pittsburgh. 😉

Jay and Jaff

++++

Agreed. O.J. Simpson wasn't pronounced "Awwg Simpson" and Y.A. Tittle wasn't "Yeah Tittle."

On the other hand, if Happ pitches well for us, I'll be like, "Way to go Jaaaaay Happ."

Now you call him Jay. Or you can call him A. Or you can call him Jay-A. Or you call him Happy . . . . .etc.

Of course we could assume that J. A. stands for what we intuitively think it stands for :-)

"Just Awesome"?

Furthest south team, then furthest west. Then back east....he's definitely jetlagged some, bro.

Never went to LA - they told him he would be DFAd...
Marginal players need to get to the team and be available...

But it is possible the Bucs did not want him to report until Monday - that was what I was trying to find out

I thought he did go out there. Thought Josh said he was in an airport waiting on a ticket. Could be wrong though.

I'm with you. Did we promise Ramirez he would bat 4th? Ridiculous thus far.

I may be wrong - but I think this is the sort of thing that led to Tulo and other Rockies running Hurdle out of Colorado - we have seen this over and over again - vets need to produce - and earn their positions. This is silly. Their are some cracks in the Hurdle is awesome story emerging - pitchers don't buy into the shifts....

This is the highest BA of any team vs another opponent in NL

Chet, you are 100% correct about 1st base but there were plenty of pitchers available at a buyers price. Not Glasnow or Bell.

In the words of the great Rumsfeld - this is an unknown unknown,

There are first basemen out there who would have been upgrades - not sure they were available and at what price. My order would be...
1. Chris Davis
2. Scott Van Slyke
3. Brandon Belt
4. Adam Craig
5. Mitch Moreland
4. Mike Napoli

A lot of those guys are on contenders. That's the WC for you...Maybe they should push the non waiver deadline back a couple weeks into august.

He's El Duque for goodness sakes. We're really screwed.

Spot on so far Milo....

He's definitely honing his craft.

Reds TV guys said the same thing -

That bad!

pretty much that bad

And all the "balls" prior to that triple were in the zone. Is Joe West's crew really this uniformly bad?

Cutch has been going downhill in CF play. Concerning to watch him Wiff at mediocre fastballs too. He will still eat up mediocre mistake pitches, but his bat speed appears diminished.

If Marte was in center last night we lose

Not sure Cutch would work in LF at PNC.

Idiot Greg Brown, said the whole outfield last night all had 5 tools. Calling Cutch and that mediocre Arm at best, a 5 tool is ridiculous

They've also never seen this guy before. Give them a few innings to see his stuff.

So true Chet.

Cole isn't getting strikes called that are dead center. That's inexcusable.

Try harder brat. Comments like these are why this comment section is criticized so much.

Yes because calling someone a brat (or any other name) will really enhance the board

Cute but no dice T. If you're somebody who thinks that a former NL MVP "doesn't care" just because he made an error on a catch that you nor I could even pretend we have the ability to make, then you are a spoiled brat. That's not "immature", that's what a good parent says that their child who wants ice cream for dinner everyday is acting like.

Just interesting that you resort to name calling. Have a good night sir.

"Brat" is as much a "name call" as "cocky" or "stubborn" is a name call. Also it's way more of a bum move to say a MLB player "doesn't care" from behind the confines of a computer screen than it is to call someone a brat. If you can't say it to his face, don't say it and I'm pretty sure battleship Bob isn't quivering in his boots over being called a brat.

Who is criticizing the comments section? ...and better yet, who cares if the comments section gets criticized?

Anyway, if you don't care enough to make a good effort, sit. I don't care if you won an MVP or not.

Thanks for having my back there, T.

Every Pittsburgh fan who doesn't comment on DK's site? Twitter, Buc's dugout, BTSC, Pensburgh, etc.

"Cesspool" was a description used. It matters if you want to build a real community.

Put 2 and 2 together dude. People who "don't care" don't win MVPs. It's hard to just catch a fly ball but Cutch doesn't care because he couldn't make a spectacular catch on a slide? If he catches that, it's a great play. If he doesn't, he doesn't care. Where's the middle ground?

I know you want me to care what those groups think about what I think about Cutch's level of care for his craft, but I just can't. (What's a 'Pensburgh'?) Anyway, I'm a fan, not a prude. I keep it clean and am honest with my opinion and passionate about the Pirates. Feel free to disagree with anything I say. From the sound of it, you are going to be disagreeing quite a bit.

Not sure how you would know what the Bucs dugout is thinking, but if they read and care about my comments, then great! Hopefully they sting a little and what I say makes them think. On the other hand, it would be incredibly pathetic if their rabbit ears were that large and sensitive. (honestly... I don't think they care what I have to say in an open forum baseball blog chat).

We would be doing a disservice to just about everyone involved if we didn't criticize someone just because they won an MVP 2 seasons ago. I mean, right? His head is in the clouds currently. We need Cutch to care enough to focus.

Does Harper lead the league in ejections?

Meals should not have a job. Plain and simple. But he is a crew chief somehow.

No Steel, elaborate

Stewart's catching.

He recently got married, so there is that.

We shouldn't be to hard on him. Being married will crush the will and spirit of any man! Lol

Cutch hasn't been 100% all year

It's funny. I said it a week ago and go attacked for it. I actually don't think he was ever a great defender, just a good one who made the diving catch on occasion. It's either the knee, with the steals being down or worse, he starting to decline a little as a player. Still very good, just closer to 30.

Not a criticism, just an observation. I do think he's banged up, but the D has not been up to his standards. That said, he's made some nice plays this year.

I don't think it's injuries - I just think he's slowing down a bit with age.

Cutch hasn't been 100% and he's been a little goofy. Ill advised defensive plays have been scattered throughout the season. Not sure what is up, but I prefer focused, serious Cutch.

I love the guy - his bat is awesome - but he has been a below average outfielder for at least three years - He should be playing left field - should have been there two years ago. His speed covers up for a lot of flaws - this game should be 1-0 Bucs.

Wasn't he the one in the middle of that Cards-Reds brawl a few years back?

Again, you really want Cutch in one of the largest LFs in baseball?

Yeah PNC Park requires 2 CF.

I think having the 3 of them in the OF at PNC for the next few years will be just fine.

I'd love to see Marte in center next year too. He would still have the speed to cover balls toward the notch. I hear what you're saying bpn. Ideally, Polonco could play left, Marte play center, and Cutch cover right. I feel like cutch would be smart enough and still a good enough athlete to learn the Clemente wall. But then again, you give up the big arm in right by moving Cutch there. I don't know what to do lol

No thanks

Meh. I do think Polanco will be a nice hitter. But I would settle for him being an average fielder. He always turns the wrong way on balls hit high his way. Those long legs and reach have covered it up.

Milo and NMR have observed before how deep he plays. Whether he's hurt or getting old, seems like he can't make up the ground as much now.

Milo and NMR have observed before how deep he plays. Whether he's hurt or getting old, seems like he can't make up the ground as much now.

Milo and NMR have observed before how deep he plays. Whether he's hurt or getting old, seems like he can't make up the ground as much now.

Sorry. Can never tell if it sends or not.

If you look at the data - Cutch has never been a very good outfielder - he has supposedly said years ago that he will never let a ball get over his head - so he plays deep. Below average arm - and has loafed on singles from time to time turning them into doubles . This team would be four to five wins better with Marte in center and Cutch in left

Could be worse too, man. Telling you, Left is big at PNC.

They may have to live with it. Or trade Polanco and put Cutch in RF someday.

I saw that too, but didn't know what we gave up for him.

On paper, it looks good to me.

Thanks curt. Already that secondary is banged up.

I got a buddy in Philly who knows his stuff. Says it's tough to see the dude leave. Excelled under Reid, Chip didnt like him.

+1 cup o' coffee

Yep. Almost makes you overlook the trade deadline performance. Almost.

No need to rush Jordy back. He'll be great as a stretch run bench contributor.

I don't understand what's going on with Cutch. I thought he was a good leader. He's looked indifferent a lot this year. Or is that just his normal face?

No way Chris a double play. That would have required a throw, and we know where that would have gone. I understand Cole upset, but you cant show players up.

Somebody needs to either show up Pedro or kidnap him and lock him up somewhere and throw away the key. He is pure and simple an embarrassment. How can they run his clown act out there anymore?

Yeah Walk said last night it wasn't cool to show up your teammates

At what police my do the players have a meeting with Clint, or is that a nono the guy is a disaster in the field.

Stupid autocorrect at what point do....

I assume you meant "point"
Well, DK says everyone loves Pedro on the team, so apparently at no point. I mean, it was a blasted ball, he probably just would've launched it into right field anyway. So, he saved extra bases

Just a friggin shame, what a waste of talent

Such a liability. It's going to burn them in the playoffs if they do not do something.

Agreed. Even in this game it cost them not only a run, but how many more pitches for Cole? Unfortunately, Morse isn't the answer at first base either. Looking like we are stuck with Pedro.

That's a good point Nate. It shortens Cole's night potentially.

Amen brother Milo

What I'm interested to know is: are other team this bad at fundamentals? I know they stink all around the league in the last 10-20 years, but I wonder if other teams' fans think their teams are horrible at the basics too?

Exactly. Look at the Dodgers. Can do all three phases well. All they need is Kershaw to get over the playoff hump.

Isn't that on the managing and coaching, Milo?

It's funny Kang, excels at all of these and it's his first year here. They must teach fundamentals in Korea.

Well we know the Cardinals aren't and neither are the Giants

We overdose on the Pirates. They are a very good team...one of best in the majors, I'm sure every message board in the majors explodes every night with tales of woe

Yes and no. Pirates can look woeful at times. The 11 games against the Reds are a case in point.

No G8rhr. I've been on other boards. This one is especially chicken little like.

Spot on. I have producing the same harangue.

Do they have a Korean Fall League?

If so, we send everyone except Marte and Kang.

"Shift got us again. Pedro on the field of play."

Keep thinking the Friday Insider right after Pedro moves on will have interesting stuff in that regard.

His agent used a dirty tactic to get more money out of the Pirates and has done nothing to improve his craft and has regressed. Now his poor defense is taxing their starting pitching with extra pitches and will tax their bull pen. He's a power hitter who can't bat in power positions and must be protected.

Although I don't understand how they can be so critical when the ump is calling a 48" wide strike zone.

True...

Then you should bench your centerfielder - he butchered that play and gave the Reds a run

Agreed!

CD, with this free swinging nut group, does not matter 5. I am sure Roots and the nerds did deep research on another non sensical stat. We are only facing 4 anyways.

#yinzerlogic

Don't mess with Kang's mojo....leave him right where he is.

I understand. It's A-Ram's lack of mojo I was reacting to, and the need for a clean-up guy to do a bit more than what he's shown to date. I'd leave Kang, as you say, but maybe Walker ought to be batting 4th.

I think Cole is gonna blow a gasket soon.

. . . and smaller 5-holes.

What purpose does that idiot serve??

Bathroom breaks for Greg and Jon?

The glove broke - Pedro haters are idiots

Yea it's only the second time.

+1 Libertarian. And I hate Libertarians. ;-)

Pro Tip: Avoid haunted gloves

Not much of a bat.

And Byrd

Been watching AJ too much

Agree. And fact is, he has given up some belts.

He's acting like he's on his period

Cutch didn't exactly bust a gut chasing it either. Milo's right about the showing of emotion. We know Cole wants to win. He needs to show his poker face when there are clusters.
Stu

L

Ha! Yes!

S-Rod better burn that glove.

I was kinda hoping that he'd run right on into the dugout and stay there.

Yeah 4 starts and zero wins

Wehner's being kind of a Debbie Downer re: Rodriguez's glove repair work.

It's the 15 HRs. We have a power shortage and need some pop from somewhere.

Actually yes I can.

Agreed. Bruce put a nice swing on that ball for the 3rd run but that was it.

I was wondering if anyone else thought that he played that very casually. There didn't seem any urgency at all in the way that ball was played.

Bruce is a power hitter and I can't figure out why they had him playing in.

BV & JTJ, that makes three of us. You may have hit on a great idea. Cutch to first base. I'm "all in" on that. It might help tp keep him in the game, and look t how much TV face time Cutch old get at first!

Stuart

It is ALL PEDRO's fault they would have won this game 1-0 if he had not been soon stupid to have a defective glove. Shame on him

Marte, cutch, Ramirez and Pedro al trying to pull the outside pitch and grounding out weakly

Wehner is choking on his own rage re: swinging at non-strikes.

Wasted. It would be nice to get someone on in front of Kang.

+1

People also dog Pedro for being the worst fielding player at his position in the majors. It's not just the hitting. He's a terrible fielder.

I agree with you Samuel. There really is no replacement for Pedro. SRod is a sure out every time he bats. But I also agree that Pedro's defense is just about as awful as can be. Not that any of the other guys are setting the world on fire, aside from Marte and Kang. I'm pulling for Pedro and I can deal with what he brings at the plate. But his defense, or lack thereof, is what is starting to bother me and could really hurt us in a wild card game or a big game down the stretch.

Obviously you haven't seen many game blogs. Cutch gets called out as well.

What's wrong with you, steel? Don't you know it's Pedros glove that's the problem?😉

Conditioning is one of many issues with that headcase. His only hope is AL team changing the swing.

I'd want Kang, but that could be decency bias

Conditioning? Really? Now we're making crap up? Just watch another team.

Pedro was the worst fielder in the league at his long time position last year too. Led the league in errors - and only played 2/3 of a season at 3rd. It's not the new position.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/03/pirates-president-coonelly-theres-work-to-be-done-on-pedro-alvarezs-conditioning/

It that's when he was at 3rd.

A 2011 report, mostly dismissed by Coonelly, and not a peep sense...

It's 2015. Get a new narrative.

Skewed stat (re: 77 vs. 82k's) Cutch has 65 more AB's on the season. Pedro strikes out every 3.7 ab's and cutch every 4.7.

Pirates have scored more runs in the previous 4 games than in any 4 game stretch this season, had the best record in July, has the best record in MLB since may 6. By all means, don't waste your time.

5-15 (16 brewing) on road in division

20-10 in other road games

When division wins are weighted more than other wins, I'll care who they beat. Right now, the total number of wins matters most.

Whoa. What was I thinking? Didn't realize they've dominated the last 4 games. Never mind.

Other than the Cards (and we can play w/ them), all the teams we'd play in the playoffs would be OUTSIDE the division.

well stated, especially use of 'malaise'.

Looks to have quite the curveball

Really big kid too. Hopefully he continues to trend upward in his development. Would be nice to slot behind Cole in the future

Hey Pedro! Get off of the comments section and pay attention to the game!

Dear Pedro,

We're sorry you're such a poor infielder.

Sincerely,

Pirate Fans Everywhere

P.S. Please hit a homer.

+1

Now

Lefty

Shows what I know

Ya know, I was going to post the same thing you did when Ishi was announced as the PH. But now, this looks like a good move because Cervelli is up with a chance to tie the game. That's why we type on here and not make the decisions lol

I literally laughed out loud haha

Haha, nice. He has been traded twice in a few days...

lets hope he doesn't get dysentery on the Oregon Trail