Final: Pirates 3, Reds 0

Sean Rodriguez at 3rd?

Maybe they are having DFA tryouts again.

Thought they might go Florimon at SS and Kang at 3B with Charlie on the hill today. Oh well, at least Kang goes to cleanup as I requested!

I saw that same lineup on the Pirates official feed, maybe someone mixed up Ramirez with Rodriguez

Reds Lineup

1. Brandon Phillips (R) 2B
2. Skip Schumaker (L) LF
3. Todd Frazier (R) 3B
4. Jay Bruce (L) RF
5. Marlon Byrd (R) CF
6. Tucker Barnhart (S) C
7. Eugenio Suarez (R) SS
8. Ivan De Jesus (R) 1B
9. Keyvius Sampson (R) P

And a rookie pitcher on the mound for the Reds. Hopefully the Bucs won't make the guy look like the second coming of Tom Seaver

When? Probably not this season

If Morse hits, which is big if, may see him less.

Kinda surprised they didn't look for AAAA 1st baseman who could hit lefties. That's why I'm not sure on Morse.

If we get healthy I think Ramirez is worth s look at first. It couldn't be any worse

He's never played it.

Honestly, Ramirez needs to start hitting other wise JHAY may be going back to 3rd.

Pedro seems to be having better overall at bats over last few weeks. I guess we'll just see. I saw him get pissed when he popped it up and that's a pretty good sign, lol

He has actually. It's just those misplays are really gonna hurt come Seot.

Yeah, because Ramirez is such a great hitter? He is not exactly fielding well either.

Seriously not being a Kdro apologist, but that ball that went through his legs was ripped and the one that went through his glove...well, that was the glove's fault, lol

Not until Josh Bell can play at this level. I would also be looking at JHay in a pinch.

Kang has been a savior. Solid defense and a good bat

No one thought that...no one, well maybe Kang did. The word floating around was the Korean league was like AAA at best, so who woulda thunk? Plus the dude plays all over on the left side. Announcers keep talking about his limited range...whatever..he catches the ball and throws it to first base

G8 "he catches the ball and throws it to first base" - ha ha!!!! In the Burgh we've developed a heightened appreciation for the simple things at third base.

I know, right? I've been trained like Pavlov's dog to cringe every time a ball is hit to third...even for the other teams!

I remember people were irritated when he stated that he was going to be a starter...Jim Colony... I do not see him as an arrogant individual at all... Just confident in himself...

I was wrong about him early on, mitch. They've handled him perfectly.

Even if the Korean League is AAA like, some players do come up from AAA and play well.

Even if the Korean League is AAA like, some players do come up from AAA and play well.

I believe the emergence of Kang has made Walker expendable in 2016. JHay at Third, Kang at SS, and Mercer at Second until Hansen is ready.

I agree, but just flip Mercer and Kang. mercer has the better range.

If the Bucs turn the page from Walker and I'm good with that, it will be JHay at 2b and Kang at 3b. Clint has said a number of times he likes JHay at 2b.

Kang at third, Mercer at short, JHay at second. Everyone has appropriate range and arm

and Walker at first

I'm not sure why fans, and more importantly Hurdle though Ramirez would be a good option for the 4th spot. He has been a league average hitter now for almost 900 plate appearances.

Other than Rodriguez, Ramirez will be the worst hitter on season in any lineup the Pirates put out there. Aramis is much better than the internal options, but this isn't 2009, he should be hitting much lower in the order.

Yep.... that about says it.

Yes they hate winning

If acquiring major talent was as simple as throwing cash at another team, I would HOPE we would have done so. But I think that any major talent would have required us to deal our upcoming talent. I for one am not ready for a return to a talentless baseball club.

I honk I would add Jay Ha to that list.

At 2nd base with Hanson, maybe.

Yeah Jahay aint bad man.

Not a fan of the 3b skills bubba.

Walker still good player.

I know I just like Jahay... man that guy is just all in. Walker is a dilemma. He wants a mint and he knows the Pirates payroll problems. Gonna have to let the Pittsburgh kid become the Pallokaville Old Man.

+1. Massive good point on the non-Cole/Liriano starts.

I know 'wont happen', but what if Glasnow is LIGHTS OUT, and they have no viable 3rd pitcher (unless Morton turns it around completely and consistently), would the Pirates have the Gonads to say, hell with it, bring up Glasnow?

Question, if he is a call up in Sept for any reason, does that become tantamount of his clocking ticking, same way a rookie starts his career in June the way Polanco and others have?

I mean its getting silly isnt it?

I would have given Cutch the day off. Maybe our AAA guys can hit AAA pitchers the Reds are sending out there.

Goodness, Cut's play is not because he is too tired; He is not an old man. He has had plenty of rest, and this game is important. Don't need a total Sunday special known as Pirate JV team

I have to admit, Cutch is annoying me at the plate these days. Apparently there are metrics showing that during July this was a problem for him, to confirm your thinking, it is not just our "impression"

Over swinging and looking to pull everything. Lot of ground balls to the left side. When he is hot hits a lot to right center. Only occasionally see that now (HR the other night)

Hitting 3rd he is killing this offense right now. ARam 4th and it becomes a black hole.

Agree cmat. He missed some fat pitches last night too.

Spot on RD. Do we really need metrics every time to explain failure and success? Goodness, enough excuses such as too tired, etc.

Split the whole dang team up. Just like an unhinged screen door in the breeze out there. Clangin away at anything.

Man right on cue Marte drives in two one is Palanco... nix that idea... GO MARTE!!!

lol, cant allow the next hit Bubba disprove everything :)

Nope. Can't blame scouting when the Pirates hitters show no discipline and like cutch just wail at hittable pitches and miss. Just another excuse to avoid putting any accountability on theee very confident players.

I disagree, making these rookies into cy youngs has been happening all year, even when hitters are on

Charlie is doing great... FINALLY some run support.

No.

If left handed, you don't use right foot to stretch inside the bag toward Home Plate. Footwork on the bag part is not hard to learn and master.

Pedro wasn't setting up for a target inside the baseline, he was stretching to receive the ball earlier. You will catch the ball earlier if you stretch with your glove side leg. Stretching with his right leg minimized his stretch.

Ah, I read your first comment as stretching *from* glove-side leg, as in that leg on the bag.

Alvarez does do that, but he was presenting a better target by keeping the left foot on the bag in that instance because of the angle.

lol, no its not just you - he needs to DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT at bat because his current routine isn't playing

OMG I was just thinking that exact same insane analogy.

NMR, I"m then impressed.

I'm not advocating players showing up players, but I would understand... These are professional ball players and their so called first baseman who makes little league style errors, can't bat at power positions and has demonstrated no ability to improve his craft. It must be a frustrating experience for the whole team.

I think it is OK if these players get annoyed with each other - no one else in the Pirates organization seems to care about accountability.

There is a lot of talent on this team and after awhile you can understand if players become demoralized when the management prefers to go junk diving rather than pick up legitimate talent. One of their starters was hurt and their first baseman is a liability and they bring in two players who were probably designated for assignment and one who is the second worst fielding first baseman in the league behind the current trash they have. The only thing I can think of is the price tag was too high and they are bringing Josh Bell up. Probably premature, but at least he can learn. However, there's no excuse for not getting anything better than Happ.

I agree. Cole is the real deal. A rare find. Like Kang. NH is no dummy.

I agree. Cole is the real deal. A rare find. Like Kang. NH is no dummy.

I agree. Cole is the real deal. A rare find. Like Kang. NH is no dummy.

I think Huntington is a wonderful judge of talent, but if you get told no by the boss. That's it. Unless they were going to make a splash for someone like Votto, the market was pretty bare. All the best first basemen are on contending teams. You got a switch hitting Josh Bell who may put out better results than anything else on the market. Good way for him to learn.

Pretty clear Cole was yelling at Pedro making the error and missing the pick off throw right when they happened. Clearly he was not yelling at himself there. I agree that after the inning he was angry at himself but not during. That said I understand it but he needs to keep his composure

For some unknown reason, the Pirates don't score in divisional road games. It's statistically significant. Maybe Matt can do some deeper analysis on what's going on here.

CD, you are right. Simple eye test, road record, and decent recall tells you that. You don't need detail analytics to confirm it or point it out.

CD, you are right. Simple eye test, road record, and decent recall tells you that. You don't need detail analytics to confirm it or point it out.

Walker needs to hit second. Handles the bat better better situational hitter Need a headsy player there

The same heady Walker that twice the other day swung at the first pitch on the outside and flew out to left with runner on 2nd and no outs. When the heady move would've been to pull the ball to move the guy over? I don't think we have any heady hitters perhaps closest one is cervelli.

So when you take away those 3 high scoring road games, the Pirates have scored 44 runs in the other 18 road games (2.44 runs per game) and are 3-15.

No surprise there. Can pretty much blame the offense for any negative Bucs stretch this year. In the division especially in Milwaukee Cincy and Wrigley you need to hit HRs and wcore runs to win. This offense fails at that hence the record. St. Louis is something else. Pretty sure Matheny or someone has sold his soul to the devil.

Good stuff. Without all that support, I pointed out 42 games with 2 runs or less. Enough said.

no he did not. really surprised Reds didnt challenge.....Polanco still cant slide I guess.

Yes he did with his hand after he slid by

Thought by then the catcher had touched him but ump gave safe sign

Oh the replay i saw he swiped the base With the backhand and immediately after that the ump called safe. But they didn't show many replays on this.

I agree

And even if he doesn't, he at least takes the force away at third...which just so happened to be the only play Suarez had on the ball in the hole.

One mistake; two missed chances for a run.

I thought Marte was going to score too.

Agree. Though he could've gotten off the bag more and then when ball went through he can go to third

no. 2 outs you move on contact. it assumed that a big league shortstop can make that throw to first. so if he chooses to throw to 3rd..so be it. it is the risk you take.

should be 3-0

Cheese, see my above comment on going on contact why you can't do that

AND with a good lead and break he goes into thir easy without a throw. not even close.

Only because the shortstop boots the ball which rarely happens. If he fields of the ball cleanly he makes about a 7 foot throw to third base for an easy out, as opposed to having to throw across the diamond to get a fast McCutchen

Dapp i marginally agree but this one could go either way I think. I disagree though entirely that cutch is fast. He is no longer fast on the base paths.

On groundball with 2 outs^^

No I'll discuss it because I've played a lot of ball and coached a lot of baseball. You don't run into the third out to end the inning with a ball hit to your right it's common sense fundamental baseball.

Marte has to be looking at the third baseman. He goes if he feels he can beat the third baseman to the bad. If Frazier moves to his left to react to the batted ball, then Marte should be off.

Of course if we were the Reds, Marte would just have stolen third.

Dapp is right, Unipress and telling all who dissent never to discuss baseball again when enough think otherwise on this matter, especially a ball hit in the hole, puts you into some elite class.

Bit of overstatement, don't you think?

lol, true CED, they run around at will.

That's been the discussion here. It's very possible.

more likely I think

More and more umps determine their call on pitcher hitting the glove versus where the ball is. AJ threw a ball last night which badly missed the target but ended up right down the middle and was called a ball.

both of you are right. CD has it down pat why called by too many. The point is that umps should not be missing that call no matter what because they have a WHITE LINE also steering their vision. Anything even close to it should never be call a strike.

Reds TV announcers continue to say it hit the wall - they are blind - it hit something above the wall

Reds announcers some of the worst in the biz. Huge homers. Especially the awful thom brennaman.

Yes, reds announcers are very poor. We saw that it was a HR and they kept denying it until the official call change. Of course, they were too busy bull sh$#@ing to call the hit in real time.

Yes, reds announcers are very poor. We saw that it was a HR and they kept denying it until the official call change. Of course, they were too busy bull sh$#@ing to call the hit in real time.

Yes, reds announcers are very poor. We saw that it was a HR and they kept denying it until the official call change. Of course, they were too busy bull sh$#@ing to call the hit in real time.

I love Joe West and you can't change my mind. 😃

Me too, Milo.

If that's the case I want Joe West fired immediately and ordered to fast for the next month as punishment.

We never needed cops in movie theaters either but you never know

This umpire crew isn't very popular

you never know when some maniac wikk jump to the field. its happened in tennis a couple times, and no reason to think it could never happen in baseball if there was no one, like policemen, sroppinf them

Based on that logic, then have cops everywhere. Obama' with his multimillion entourage can afford the case.

Has anyone EVER in the history of Ball, seen fans jump and a dugout, and I know as Solomon said, nothing new ever under the sun, that wackos have always existed.

Did this silly stuff start after De Niro starred in that movie? Seriously they are better off roaming stands, especially Giants, Dodgers, and Philly fans.

In fact cops should be in all isles at anything that is Philadelphia

He's adequate now and that's pretty much it. I think his better years are beyond him and they can get better from Kang, Harrison and maybe Mercer. Where Harrison and Mercer lack in other attributes, their defense is better than walkers. Maybe walker would be willing to be a stop gap and learn first base until Bell arrives. How many people have researched on here to see if Kang, Mercer, Walker or Ramirez have played first base at all in their lifetime?

I think if they were planing on bringing him back Hanson would've been dealt. He's still a plus player but he will get more money in the open market than he's worth IMO.

I would say Harrison and Hanson would go to 2nd, but I think they both come with their own limitations on offense and defense.

After seeing Polanco and Marte at the plate, more than fair to wonder about Hanson.

Oh I think they have no plans to overpay him and therefore no chance he's back. Wondering about the reaction. Figure it will be negative. Maybe they can dump Pedro on the same day to balance it out.

Guys rarely try new positions in a walk year, Volk.

Who???

overall he has been a good player. Wonder what FA will pay? I doubt at his age, more than 12 or so?

Are you watching the game? If so how can you say that walkers ball hit the wall in any way????

it did not hit the wall. it hit the railing in the stands and above the yellow line. no doubt HR

It hit the U railing above the wall. I'm watching the game - easy on the ???????'s. Just making an "only in baseball" comment.

Extremely smart player only has had five errors all year 162 game average career 275 hitter 18 hr 81 rbi. Never offered a contract from Huntington ??? Cause he is a little field guy. Could do a lot worse. Careful what u wish for

Limited range (being kind there) injury prone. No speed. Getting old. Will want lots of years and $$. No thanks. And it really isn't a hard decision in my mind.

They'd be better off spending on pitching Bernie. They may need too.

I don't know what they ruled but he clearly did NOT touch it despite what Yohe said. It hit a railing above the wall and careened back into play.

It hit the railing above the fence. I am stuck watching Reds' broadcast and turn off the sound frequently.

I think the railing is actually right behind the fence - so if it isn't there is clearly lands in the stands

Oh god man.... listening to Sleds play by play. That aint right. I splurge for the MLB package. Cant go to games so I at least get that. More beer man. Makes wimmin look better, music sound better, and..... well there aint no and.... Cincy play by play stinks.

Marty Brennaman is painful

Again, Reds' announcers are bad. Talked 15 minutes through the inning about Joe Nuxhall's widow's birthday. OK, wish her a happy birthday, but the entire half inning...

Cant be much worse than Brownie and the some of the gang

Yea, I wonder if Altoona could AAA someday, but I think there's more to it. Some AAA cities are pretty big.

Indianapolis is about a 2 hour plane ride from Pittsburgh, not that inconvenient.

I laughed when I saw the first 5 starts stats, and the last five. Talk about contrasting.

That's why he's a bottom end rotation guy instead of a top three. If he could ever find any consistency he'd be a decent number three guy. As it is he's a four at best.

++++ agree

He looks grossly out of shape and I don't think its nice to rag on "big" people, but I don't know how he can stand out there for hours on end in these games, especially in blazing heat

GR, big people is one thing, but not a PC guy. Just to look at that guy, one can tell he is a lazy slop, and uncouth, and most importantly HORRIBLE

He'll join them in Pittsburgh tomorrow. The CBA gives you three days and he's been traded twice from coast to coast and back again.

NH on his show today made me pause - said one reason Morse is not here earlier is because he has been waived before when this happens. Wonder if that is an option here? Maybe they told him to cool his jets for a couple of days.

Huh? No chance the Pirates waive him. That would make less than zero sense.

Still taking the horse and buggy from the Oregon Trail. He will be here soon. He's cutting through Iowa right now. Don't worry, he will get here. His second worst first baseman defense will make him look good versus Pedro

Still taking the horse and buggy from the Oregon Trail. He will be here soon. He's cutting through Iowa right now. Don't worry, he will get here. His second worst first baseman defense will make him look good versus Pedro

No you are wrong. The Bucs have been swept in Milwaukee many times.

He's obviously hurt.

Did he injure himself after his scintillating June?

LOL

yep

Bevis made "buttheads" out of the Pirates hitters. Mostly.

Milo, if you mean Marte's act, even if he went, there is no assurance he scores.

Nah, you have to put your stakes in the ground and build around them - like a core four. Cutch is the #1 stake.

You're also assuming D Backs would take that trade. Which they wouldn't. Goldy is arguably the best hitter in all of baseball and hasn't even reached his prime yet. No one wants Pedro - they tried. Plus the D Backs have AJ Pollack in CF - an all star. So yes, it's crazy.

Cutch is also the undisputed leader of this team. I can't imagine that move would be good for morale.

I can take Cutch leaving when his contract is up, but him being traded would be awful. Idk if I would ever watch again

Probably not but if they won they'd forget about it.

Please stop with Goldschmidt. Not gonna happen. And I'd do that trade right now. Cutch would be gone. And anything else they wanted.

Goldschmidt is right there with Trout and Harper as untouchable.

Cmat what about Rizzo?

What package could you possibly send that would get us Rizzo? How do we improve at all if we trade cutch to get a 1B? You improve at 1B leave a gaping hole at an OF spot. Just stop. Not gonna happen nor should it.

Relax man we are all on the same team. I guess I wrongly assumed Cutch was more valuable than he is. Forget I asked.

moot point, not even reality.

We might need a 2013 Macha reprise

I think if Happ struggles though August we'll see Glasnow as a September call up. Not really any other internal options.

I think that would be rushing him. But that's me.

@bpn - I think you're going to see that Glasnow has a lot of pitching to learn. Incredible prospect, but hasn't had to do much more than get the fastball and curve over the plate to be successful so far.

That's not going to work in the show.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the club moved him up sooner than "the schedule" called for just to get him some competition. Only way he'll learn.

I thought I heard NH say a few weeks ago something similar. Also said he still needs to work on consistent mechanics.

Cardinals don't think twice about calling their young guys up.

...if he thinks he's going to get better defense up here, than what he got last night. ☺

BUt teh Cardinals, bpn. TEH CRADNALS!

Need a Wakefield. Is he around.

This is where the middle relief killed them - starters having to go seven (new this year) wasn't working for him, hopefully that is fixed.

Yep that too.

Remember - NH always very active in post non waiver deadline. I fully expect him to pick up another veteran starter.

Whoa whoa whoa. Attitude adjustment? I respectfully disagree with you on that one. Maybe he needs a day off or his knees might be hurting. The guy is having a below average series. I've never heard an Attitude issue with him.

Although I usually stay away from observations of emotion, I do agree with you on this. I also suspect he is playing hurt, but that doesn't explain his swinging at the plate

This could admittedly be because I'm an old yinzer at heart, but I started detecting a bit of an I-get-no-respect vibe from Cutch around the time of the MVP. Mainly because he was basically saying it.

Well, this is one way to get some attention.

Right where the second baseman has been standing for a hundred years amiright?

You just did.

But keep it quiet for the "150 years where the SS never played" crowd.

"Get off my lawn". "I remember when gas costs a nickel"

Somebody say something ? 😉

^Why Milo's great. ;)

. . . and right on cue.

Wow!

Do you mean road series win?

What? Last divisional road win was May 17th? i'll have some of what you are having

Yoi those are stinky numbers

Sorry - may 17th was their last divisional road win prior to Friday. Haven't won a divisional road series since April. This would only be their second road series that they haven't lost all year. They are 1-5 in divisional road series.

And they still won't because this series would be a split

Watson.

Duh.

The Buc's strategy from here on out has to be, let the lineup see your starter twice. More if warranted. I like it.

And three runs. Feast or famine with these guys.

And three runs. Feast or famine with these guys.

++

++

++

Watson and Melancon aren't going to intentionally put anyone on. This win means too much. Next time they play the Reds someone should take one in the back.

Oh yea!

Damn, I was wrong. Wow.

Blanton and Byrd were getting chummy there

Totally agree....they should have left him the 5 spot..haha.

DOH!!

Couldn't happen to a better child.

Phillips is a punk.

Too bad he can't play 1B. I'd take him.

Oh I agree. I wanted to get him back before the deadline.

In fairness to Byrd he was hit last night.

They're so bad

According to the Reds announcers Byrd was hit on purpose last night but no way cutch was hit on purpose today. Clowns

The brennamans are both losers.

That's really what seemed to make the Reds-Bucs become what Bucs-Brewers were before this. Then it seemed like cincy was going for cutch every series. Then when the buds fight back they get pissed. You don't wanna get hit, don't hit first.

Toothpick Baker has not left the dugout.

+1

Wish we had him at first for us Milo.....

reds announcers all
Over that also

AJ went out to did he not? Also on DL

He was tossed so no PH for him

Big time. At least his uniform today was medium and not extra small. He has been ejected I believe.

He was tossed too.

He was tossed too.

He was tossed too.

He may have been sorry to find country Joe.

Would love more fire and passion in there bats......

Agree.

Any lip readers? Wonder what made Rodriguez so hot

It was probably Votto and Phillips with their empty threats. Watson waited and Phillips didn't do anything

haha true but I think Srod would have hit someone if Hurdle hadn't restrained him

Oh yeah, the fat old guy with artificial hips really kept Sean Rodriguez from doing anything Sean Rodriguez wanted to do there.

His words...not his grandpap physique

. . . or .210.

Guess what, after watching him stand up to the whole team, and how smooth he is with the glove, and speed,overall, I 'm keeping him this year, when guys return.

Yes, and thankfully Hurdle tackled him or he would have . . . he would have . . . he would have said something REALLY mean.

Did not know that. What year? Was it 77? Probably not as he was hitting .257 at the time of injury.

Didn't know that either

+1

+1000

He was about to 'roid rage. It looked like Blanton would have went with him. That would have been a mistake.

agree

He knows what Phillips is all about. Flashiness and hot air

+++ It's elementary.

+++ It's elementary.

+++

Haven't hit all year in divisional rival parks

Big, didn't you hear Wehner's brilliant insight. Takes time to learn how rook's pitch.