December 3, 2014
Podcast: On Bortuzzo suspension with Madden 65
DEJAN KOVACEVIC, DK ON PITTSBURGH SPORTS The NHL’s two-game suspension of the Penguins’ Robert Bortuzzo for not delivering a late hit — per their own guidelines — and for not hitting Jaromir Jagr in the head — per their own statement — was the hot top of this week’s studio segment on 105.9 the X
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Dec 03, 2014 @ 17:55:43
Bortuzzo suspended 2 games for his hit on Jagr. Watching the video on NHL.com and hearing the explanation, which included mentioning that it occurred in a tie game, gave me quite the chuckle. What a joke.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:01:00
Pens have to hope that people will now see risk in physical attacks on Sid or Geno.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 07:22:40
I highly doubt that any hit on Sid or Geno will be called, let alone penalized or suspension given.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:05:34
DK, I saw you mention .39 seconds… where did you get that?
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:39:57
Garage League.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:40:33
Why don’t MJ and the Pens mgmt just go apesh-t on these guys? Not like it could get any worse. Call it out. Work them. Everybody does.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:42:36
Seriously what are they afraid of? Something nuts like Boychuk kneecapping Malkin? Or Staal two handing a home run swing to the back of Sid’s neck? And nothing called?
What?
I say go crazy on’em.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:46:35
If Jagr had gotten to his skates, gathered up his walker & skated quietly to the bench, nothing would have happened. I give you the Phaneuf on Hornquist hit in Toronto. And there was even immediate on ice reaction to that one.
Suspended 2 games for interference. That’s classic even for the NHL.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:52:11
Yup. Garage League.
I hope the Pens unleash Borts next game he’s available and tell him to keep on truck in’.
They haven’t been nasty to play against like this since 2006-09…..it is a welcome change.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:52:27
It is beyond being a joke anymore. There is no consistancy in the suspensions handed out by these individuals. Get some consistancy NHL! Garage league indeed.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:54:08
If only the NHLs “don’t touch an aging superstar” policy had applied to 66, he might still be playing.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 18:57:16
DK I can’t access any iHeartRadio podcasts. they are not available outside of the US. Is there another platform to listen to this?
Dec 03, 2014 @ 19:23:14
I mentioned this at the station a bit ago. Once I find out more, we’ll adjust accordingly. I want all content on this site to be accessible to ALL our readers worldwide.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:03:47
Not a perfect solution to the problem, but you can use a proxy server, such as hidemyass and connect through a US server.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 19:11:33
I really don’t get the sound and fury over the reference to the score of the game. It’s not like they said “…because it was a 0-0 game…” that they were suspending him. I’ve watched many of these Player Safety videos, mainly from last year, and nearly every one had the game score mentioned.
Gnash teeth about the inconsistency of Sid and Geno getting the Weeble treatment and no calls and then this? I’m right there with you. But worrying about something as peripheral as the mention of the game score? Meh.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 19:14:34
Thus, a peripheral mention. Hardly sound and fury.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:33:14
The NHL should not reference the game score in their explanation video. It is not relevant to the infraction of the rules. But…. keep it close and even it up has been the officiating creed as long as I can remember. So “they” certainly do take the score into consideration.
I do not have the numbers but I am betting that most games (unless one team or the other is really thuging it up or playing really stupid) penalty’s are about even. Think about it, how many “make up calls” have you seen and just shrugged and said “well we knew that was coming “.
“These dopes actually bring up the score of the game at the time of the hit. I kid you not”
Sorry DK, maybe not sound and fury but certainly more than peripheral .JMHO
Dec 04, 2014 @ 04:23:33
Erik,
I use unblock us, cheap and efficient for use outside of the US. It also works well with Apple TV for Netflix and Hulu.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 19:40:21
Every time I click the podcast link I get sent to the I heart radio app and nothing plays. What am I doing wrong?
Dec 03, 2014 @ 19:56:49
Love the Staal and Boychuk references. This league has always made the rules as it goes along. Not I’m not saying the Pens are Saints, but that explanation was about as convincing as a Mile Tomlin press conference. Though I have to say my favorite line was “the hit was predatory in nature”.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:03:13
Re: the above
Everything after “Clearly” is the real issue.
Clearly “they” need to see their own guidelines and clearly follow them.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:07:57
Wow, can we expect to see consistent suspensions for Interference the rest of the year on all players? Otherwise, that is a joke of a punishment and won’t be consistent across all players/teams.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:11:52
You can tell by the whole nonsensical explanation that they saw nothing overt, but because of the result and the fact that it was Jagr, they needed to find some reason yo suspend Bortuzzo.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:17:23
Cannot get podcast link to work. Takes me to radio app & plays radio.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:30:49
damn was waiting for this to be put up and now after dling an app i dont really want it wont play the podcast
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:38:52
Man, the fan reaction (cheering, applause) while Jagr was down was sad. And the guy who yells “Jagr, that’s what you get for being a little bitch!” is some kind of POS.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:44:41
NHL supplementary discipline is nothing but inconsistent, and I agree on that point. The issue is hits are only looked at when the player receiving the hit is injured or needs assistance leaving the ice.
As far as the time guideline for being late, it is not a written rule and Patrick Burke said via Twitter during the game We begin looking at hits that occur around .5 seconds late. A 2 second late hit would be absurdly late. If people want to complain about the looseness of the guideline I think that is justified. However I have no issue with the suspension the hit was predatory, to the head, the chin is part of the head, and I still believe it was late.
Larger issue I would like to see more these type of hits looked at and more suspensions. The original purpose of a body check was to separate the player from the puck. Not sure if the popularization of shorter shifts, or equipment changes, but now finishing your check to punish the opposing skater is pervasive. I’d much rather watch a high level skill game than a bunch of WHL alumni take runs at one another.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:47:11
Wow I didn’t realize I typed that much, will keep it shorter in the future.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 20:55:40
The NHL Department of Player Safety has several significant problems with the discipline system and rulings that have led to inconsistency, and a lack of confidence on the part of the fans:
1) The severity of injury should not be a factor, only the severity of the infraction.
2) The game circumstances (time, score, regular season/playoffs) should not be factors, and should never be mentioned. That information only clouds the objectivity of the ruling.
3) If the lateness of a hit is going to be a deciding factor in supplementary discipline, “late” must be a clearly defined time that can be objectively determined. Penalties in-game are a judgement call by the referees, without benefit of replay. Supplementary discipline, on the other hand, can easily incorporate objective measures.
4) Loaded words like “predatory” that are not defined in the rules have no place in the description of the incident.
Although my gut feeling is that the hit was borderline, and is the kind of hit that could be avoided or minimized for legitimate player safety reasons, the current guidelines simply are not designed with clarity, nor are they applied with consistency or logic.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:06:25
@Scaldis Noel
Very well said… you could give DK a run for the money getting to the heart of the matter! lol
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:09:02
Thanks for the compliment, but I’ll trust DK to do that more consistently, and with better skill.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:21:59
I don’t know that I agree that the hit was borderline just because I don’t really think it was late (by the current stated rules).
But everything you had to say about the guidelines for the current so-called Department of Player Safety is right on to me. How can they keep players safe if they don’t have clearly defined rules? And they let some things slide but not others? I feel like they run by the rules of Animal Farm (sorry for those who haven’t read it, but I think you’ll get my point)… “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:46:55
Karen, I should have been more clear on that point. I used the word “borderline” because I think he might have had enough time to minimize or completely avoid contact to Jagr’s head, not because of the letter of existing rules on what makes a hit “late” or not.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 22:51:22
The ‘predatory’ really struck me, too. Dear God, if you think anyone is being predatory — non-Nashville, of course — boot them out of the league for life.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 05:59:17
Exactly, DK. The word “predatory” suggests intent to cause injury. There is no evidence of that. If they wanted to say that it was his responsibility to be in control and make absolutely no contact with Jagr’s head, and that the hit was therefore “reckless”, I can almost buy that. However, even that isn’t consistent with past incidents that allowed “incidental” contact to the head if the primary point of contact was the body, which in this case, it was.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:00:55
@ A Lane
“but now finishing your check to punish the opposing skater is pervasive”
Sorry, but not even close to pervasive. Rare anymore, back in the day standard operating procedure.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 22:01:14
Depends on what you mean by back in the day.
There was an excellent post, no longer available because the author now works for a team, that showed the Broad Street Bullies in a playoff game repeatedly passing up chances to finish their check while in the offensive zone. If the puck was gone the Flyers skated by to pursue the puck.
Also prior to Shero popularizing shorter shifts, with these same Flyer teams, shifts were too long for skaters to waste energy with crushing hits. Stick fouls, elbowing and subtle interference were all over the place, but not big, skates off the ice hits.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 22:48:21
Can I subscribe to YOUR site?
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:03:18
Dejan:
Much like the NFL, what I hate about the NHL and their Justice Department is it is completely reactionary to the outcome of a play. If someone gets hurt, then someone must be punished, even if it is within the scope of rules. But someone got hurt, and we don’t want anyone being hurt, so someone has to be punished.
It leads to such an uneven and inconsistent application of justice and therefore enforcement of the rules.
Roger Goodell is pleased.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:12:46
DK the video says it was a hit to the head and the league insist it is late. Did the league release something in writing that describes this hit as otherwise?
referencing ‘and for not hitting Jaromir Jagr in the head — per their own statement’
Dec 03, 2014 @ 21:23:28
Also, did the NHL or someone actually measure the time from release of the puck to hit? What was the actual time? Just interested in the facts.
NHL Player Safety’s internal guideline for a late hit as being 0.6 to 0.7 seconds from the release of the puck.
Also, I could be wrong on this but I did think the score and time of the game was something I heard the league does consider in weighting a suspension. A tight game still in progress wouldn’t actually weigh heavily. I believe they said they would penalize more heavily if such actions came with a game out of hand or near the end when the winner was not really in doubt. That may explain the reference. Otherwise, yes, it is completely irrelevant.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 22:50:12
The video states that the hit drove ‘into the chest and chin.’ When they mean head shot, they SAY ‘head shot.’ They didn’t. And the league can insist it was late, but it would only mean something if they openly acknowledge a change in their own internal guidelines.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 23:01:50
Watching last night I thought it was tad late but clean. Apparently it wasn’t late. Principle point of contact was the chest. If they are not following their own guidelines it kind of lowers the NHL’s credibility, if thats possible. I am glad Jagr is ok, I hope Bortuzzo doesn’t change the way he plays.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 23:02:16
For those asking about the podcast not working, all I’ve provided is a link to 105.9 the X’s site. That’s the only access I have. They recently went through some sweeping change with their podcast setup.
Going forward, I’ll get for you either a direct link to their podcast, or just have a raw one created that I’ll embed here myself.
Apologies. Only learned about this today.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 23:22:06
Thinking that because of all the hits when you’re on, they decided to go to a log in with email addresses.
Dec 03, 2014 @ 23:27:27
Listened to podcast. Happen to agree with MM on Pouliot.
Don’t want him up for any showcasing. Comes up and plays well, trade someone else, comfortable in the knowledge that you’re staring at your future star / PP point man on D.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 00:55:41
What do you expect from a department that employs a Philadelphia Flyers player? That may sound like dumb rivalry talk and I don’t really believe Pronger had anything to do with the suspension but how can you claim to have integrity while employing people who are on the payroll of an individual team?
Dec 04, 2014 @ 13:13:46
I really don’t think that Pronger still getting paid by Philly will have any different effect on him than only being a ‘former’ Flyer would have. It’s not like they can stop paying him, which means his income isn’t dependent on him providing ‘favorable’ treatment for the Flyers or against Flyers rivals. Pronger may be a Flyer, but he’s still a person, and most people that make it to the level he did in any sport have a very high degree of character and integrity; it’s what makes somebody a leader like he was both on and off ice. Regardless of team preferences, we should give the man the benefit of the doubt until he gives us a reason not to. I’d be more worried if they had given a job like that to Mike Milbury who clearly carries a bias for and against certain teams to this very day.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 13:46:27
You don’t think the fact that he collects a paycheck from an individual team could possibly make a person feel a responsibility to that team? Even if Pronger makes every effort to be neutral he could still make biased decisions subconsciously especially if he has a high degree of character and integrity. That said the idea that Pronger has integrity or a high degree of character is laughable and I don’t think he feels the slightest of responsibility to the Flyers because he collects millions of dollars from them every year but that’s not the point. The point is that the Department of Player Safety opened themselves up to these kinds of questions by hiring Pronger and if they’re too stupid to see the conflict of interest then how can they be trusted to make a proper decision on borderline infractions?
Dec 04, 2014 @ 04:32:37
I think the Devils bought that suspension. Seriously, change the rule if needed but at least follow the rules as they are stated. This department is a joke. No call on knee on knee on Geno and excuse me there was not even a penalty called when Sid took either head shot as I recall. So pretty sure no WWIV was declared when he did take a headshot. I tell you what though, I liked it just fine. These teams will be less inclined with Borts and Downie. If this is how the NHL deems winning hockey that is how we have to play. You get to the playoffs no calls are made-so be it as evidenced by the last two years, cheap shots allowed over skill. We will see that and raise you shot for shot.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 13:24:40
I’d like to bring up the injury to Beau Bennett as a good example of what’s wrong with Player Safety. After the collision and after Bennett had gotten back up, Kevan Miller, still sitting on his wallet, rolls Bennet back to the ice. No tripping penalty, and no league review. Bennett out with another injury. I know a lot of people will claim that Bennett gets hurt easily, but from what I saw on the broadcast, Miller didn’t have to take Bennett down like he did. That’s the kind of dangerous plays they need to look at and, at minimum, issue a fine
Dec 04, 2014 @ 13:57:38
If everyone who injured Bennett were suspended, there would be no league.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 08:16:26
It’s a Pens player so Dejan goes all lawyer – headshots need to be removed from the league – I agree that the “targeting” rule needs to be changed – it leaves too much room for “legal” headshots that cause the same short-term/long-term damage to the players (the brain receiving the shot can’t tell the difference) – however the most important thing is to remove these hits from the game and Dejan has said as much many times – you would think in a city that almost lost the greatest player of all time to a head-shot, folks would get it.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 14:27:01
Now you’re just asking for negative feedback.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 14:28:06
Sorry, that was supposed to be a reply to DK on Bennett.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 08:23:53
Independent of the “letter of the law”, Bortuzzo delivered an unnecessarily violent hit to Jagr and because of his size, it ended up as head contact. This is EXACTLY the type of hit that needs to be eliminated from the game. I love Borts, but he lined up Jagr and could have easily pulled off after Jagr passed the puck. This is a great hit by Scott Stevens or Kasparaitis in the early 2000s, but in today’s game there is no place for it.
If Chara delivered this type of hit to any Penguin, let alone a guy like Crosby or Malkin, I think the interpretation of the hit would be vastly different by a number of Pens fans.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 08:35:34
It depends on whether it was a tie game or not.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 08:53:56
“This is a great hit by Scott Stevens or Kasparaitis in the early 2000s, but in today’s game there is no place for it.”
So it would have been a great hit in say: 2001? Makes sense. Someone’s gotta tell Stevens he was only good and only in the HOF because of the era he played in. Maybe they can put an asterisk next to his statue. ” * Was good before we became enlightened.” While we’re at it, in football there’s this Mel Blount guy…
Dec 04, 2014 @ 09:03:56
I like the term “predatory” they used. Should neighbors within a certain radius be informed of him? Should we be scared that he can jump out from behind any bush and deliver a crushing shoulder check? I know if I lived by him, I’d be watchful taking out the trash.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 09:41:03
It would have be an excellent hit in 2001 – we used to glorify those Stevens/Lindros step-up-at-the-blueline head shots that turned Eric’s brain in jello. It was a different era. He was a great player in that era, and could probably be a great player in the current NHL, but he would have to adapt his game.
If they are trying to eliminate head shots from the game, then they need to punish hits like Bortuzzo on Jagr.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 09:37:43
We will never get consistency out of any sports league until we can view stats on refs and umps, not to mention discipline actions by the various leagues. Imagine if we could hear the play-by-play announcers say, “Andy McRef is calling 68% of the potential boarding calls this year, and only 53% in the third period or beyond. So don’t be surprised if this game gets chippy toward the end.” Then we would have some transparency in the league. As it stands now, we grumble about the zebras when they have a particularly bad game, but we like to continue with the illusion that the way they call games don’t affect the outcome.
Same thing with the league and suspensions. It seems like PED enforcements are fully mechanical, which is a good thing. But with player safety issues, the leagues are just reacting. The NHL is the worst offender in this regard, but the NFL and MLB are not immune.
Without consistency, how are players to know what actions are worth a penalty or fine or suspension? Do you want them to play less hard, so that they are on the safe side of the line? I feel like that was exactly the lack of grit that Mario was complaining about under the last regime.
Dec 04, 2014 @ 10:36:31
cant get the podcast to work. any ideas?
Dec 04, 2014 @ 13:46:51
Never was able to play the Madden podcast. No problem in the past. ugh.
Dec 05, 2014 @ 00:18:59
Do you need to click the podcast link on a computer for it to work? When I click on my phone it just opens the I heart radio app and takes me to the home page of it
Dec 05, 2014 @ 17:07:30
This just in… Headlines from the NHL: 12-5-14
The new NHL Department of Chin Safety and Head Management has issued a statement: “Due to recent events, we understand that some of our fans, mostly the whiny Pittsburgh ones, have become disgruntled with how we do things. So, in order to make them happy, we asked Patrick Burke to revise his earlier offensive statement.”
According to Burke: “What I meant to say was: Pittsburgh fans have been very vocal about what they perceive as incontinence…Yeah… That’s what I meant to say. According to all the scientific knowledge I have gained from blocking people on The Internet, incontinence can occur anytime, anywhere, but mostly in Pittsburgh.”
Burke goes on to explain: “What’s the big deal, anyway? I pee on myself at least twice a day. Especially when I get excited, you know? That’s why I always wear these dark suits. Plus, did you know, that according to Wiki-science-ipedia, it has has been known to happen in Czechoslovakia, or whatever, where occasionally legendary kids are born without their chin being attached to their head? Which for some reason, makes them easy prey for predators. Plus, they pee more than normal, and it’s a strange color too. But, Wiki-science-ipedia, has ‘some issues’ with that. So, I would say it probably might not be totally accurate. “
Burke tried to explain his mistake:
“Yeah, that stupid computer, correction thing made me write something that was offensive to some people, especially Pittsburgh ones. Inconsistency? Huh? I don’t even know what that means. Why would I knowingly use such a complicated word with that many c’s and s’s in it?
Plus, when I tried to stop my finger from punching ‘send,’ it kind of twitched and jerked and I spilt coffee all over my keyboard. Now I’ll probably have to go to Best Buy and shop around for a computer I like, then buy it from Amazon.
So, I guess I’m sorry if I offended any small town boogers, I mean bloggers, in, uh…Pittsburgh, I guess, mostly.”